--- You are now working with JAXA on a project to explore one of Saturn’s moons, Enceladus.
Water vapor spewing from the vicinity of the south pole of Enceladus (courtesy: NASA/JPL/Space Science Institute)
We are still at the concept level, but, with Dr. Hajime Yano and his colleagues who were responsible for the sample collection by the asteroid explorer HAYABUSA, I am planning a project to send a probe to Enceladus to look for evidence of life. Enceladus is one of the moons of Saturn, and NASA’s Cassini spacecraft has confirmed that there is seawater spewing from its surface. If we can bring a sample of that seawater to Earth, we’ll be able to study whether the composition of the ocean has the conditions to support life. If the mission goes as planned, it will be possible to start research on Enceladus seawater within about thirty years. I will be 70 years old. People who will be working on this may not have even been born yet. What you start is taken over by the next generation – this is the beauty of science.
--- If extraterrestrial life is found, do you think anything will change?
It will make no difference in most people’s lives (laugh). However, I am sure about one thing: biology will become a real science for the first time.
--- What do you mean by that?
Whether on Earth or in space, physics and chemistry are sciences that can be applied anywhere. Biology, on the other hand, is limited to living organisms on Earth. By learning about extraterrestrial life, we will be able to find out whether organisms on Earth are universal or special. Finding the answer to this will be quite a dramatic event, and will bring a revolution in the world of biology, which has a history of 2,600 years. In that sense, Mars is relatively close to Earth, so its history may have something in common with the history of life on Earth. Therefore, I think, finding life on Enceladus will have more significance. And of course, the chances of finding evidence of life on Enceladus are much higher. This is also a very important aspect.
--- For the project to move forward, JAXA first has to have success with the HAYABUSA 2 sample-return mission, right?
Asteroid explorer HAYABUSA 2 (courtesy: Akihiro Ikeshita)
HAYABUSA 2 is a mission to go and search for precursors to life. Through this mission, I hope that JAXA, as an organization, will learn about biogenic matter in our solar system, and think deeply about life – how it was born and what it is. I’m afraid I’ve never heard JAXA scientists talk about JAXA’s view of life. Sometimes I’m inclined to ask if they’ve ever really, seriously thought about life. Without a good understanding of life, it’s impossible to scientifically seek life in space. Probably there’s no one who thinks about the essence of life more seriously than me, so I recommend that JAXA appoint me captain of extraterrestrial life exploration (laugh).
--- If JAXA can show its dedication to the public, it may be possible to get people more involved, and make space exploration more exciting.
SHINKAI 6500 exploring the deep sea (courtesy: JAMSTEC/NHK)
JAXA should articulate a clear vision for what they want to look for with the technologies they have, such as fly-by and unmanned exploration. And if they explain to people that they are going to search for life in space, which NASA has not yet been unable to find, people will think, “Wow, that’s so cool!” But I cannot guarantee that response (laugh). I think it’s important to try something nobody in the world has done yet, something original to Japan. So I am being demanding not only of JAXA but also of JAMSTEC. I want to see a cool and challenging project with the participation of many scientists: a long-term scientific investigation at the deepest part of the Mariana Trench.
--- The Mariana Trench is the deepest point in the world, isn’t it?
That’s right. I am seriously thinking about conducting a scientific investigation for an extended time period with many researchers at the deepest point of the Mariana Trench, at a depth of about 11,000 meters. We used to think the trench was very quiet, almost like a world of death, but recent studies are finding that it’s actually full of dramatic and active lives. But, despite the fact that there are many reasons for us to go down there and study that world, these reasons don’t seem to be convincing enough to get Japan involved. So working as a team, JAMSTEC is now fighting to make the project happen, trying different maneuvers, such as pushing through the front lines, getting in through the back door, or having the “slow and steady wins the race” attitude.
--- The SHINKAI 6500 takes only three passengers - a pilot, a co-pilot and a researcher. Isn’t it scary to dive to the deep sea in such a small, enclosed space?
The cockpit of SHINKAI 6500 can hold three people (courtesy: JAMSTEC)
It is scary. It takes about 2 hours to reach a depth of 6,500 meters. In my first dives, I used to get nervous, worrying that seawater would get into the cockpit, but nowadays I am relaxed enough to sleep until we get to the bottom.
--- How many dives have you made into the deep sea? How has your view of it changed since your first trips?
I have dived more than 30 times. I enjoy it more now because I can see beyond what’s in front of me. In the past, I could see only what I was seeing, but now I am full of imagination looking at the deep sea. I have built knowledge over time, so I can see so much more than what I see before me, guessing the presence of particular creatures living at a hydrothermal vent, for example. I can also see the ocean on Enceladus beyond the hot water. Knowledge can enhance your imagination – this is why we learn. And this is what science is all about!
--- Listening to you talk, I can see that science is a lot of fun.
See! I believe that the science I am trying to do can greatly stimulate people’s imagination and curiosity. To me, science makes life fun.
--- Were you interested in the deep sea and microorganisms when you were a child?
On the deep-sea drilling vessel CHIKYU (courtesy: JAMSTEC)
No, I wasn’t. As a child, I was interested in writing. I grew up listening to my mother telling me to become someone, so I thought that I had to become a man who would build an original world. But, at an early stage in life, I realized that I didn’t have much talent as a writer, so I gave up on it. I was originally interested in living things. The happiest time I had as a child was diving in a river or lake with swimming goggles to watch or catch fish. So I thought that it would be nice to become a biologist, and I studied at the Faculty of Agriculture at Kyoto University. There was a time when I had an ambition to win a Nobel Prize in molecular biology (laugh). But when I had to decide on a research topic in my final year, I thought that seeking the origin of life would be more interesting than molecular biology because nobody had been able to explain it. I thought it was more worthwhile to try to do that. Probably I wanted to approach the ultimate proposition for humankind.
--- Is there anything you keep in mind when you’re conducting research?
Do you know what the biggest selling manga in the world is? It’s a pirate adventure called “One Piece,” which has been serialized in Weekly Shonen Jump. Like in that story, there is nothing more fun than going to a place nobody has been to and becoming the first one to see that world. Such an experience also helps you grow in many ways. “Wow! This is so much fun!” – pure excitement is what I always go for. And by sharing the excitement, I hope that I can be of help to other people.
--- What do you mean by that?
Exhibition of scaly-foot gastropod, spring 2013. (courtesy: JAMSTEC)
Rather than just going after short-sighted goals, such as making money, I think it’s very important to inspire the younger generation about what to become in the future, or to motivate them to work at a research institution such as JAXA or JAMSTEC. For example, I recently had a very touching, or I should say encouraging, experience. Last January to March, we did a round-the-world voyage called QUELLE2013, with the SHINKAI 6500. We took some snails called scaly-foot gastropods, which we got in the Indian Ocean on that trip, and showed them to the public. The snails were alive. Many kids came to see them. They got to touch the snails, and listened to scientists talk about them. And they seemed to have a very good time. Some children said they wanted to work at JAMSTEC when they grew up. I think that desire to be scientists is something priceless; even, in a larger sense, a national asset. It’s important to let people know that what JAMSTEC is doing is exciting. And I think that sharing our excitement with others is the greatest incentive for our work.
